Question of the Month
…award definitely belongs to Guy Kelly:
I’m an occasional commenter, and I had a question I wanted to put before some fellow book designers.
I’m fairly new to book design, and the type of books I design use lots of lists in the body copy (numbered and bulleted). I got into the habit of indenting those lists (where the bullet was flush with the left edge of the page, and the text was indented a pica or so), and I am now trying to
correct myself.
The odd thing is that most people where I work don’t hang their bullets, and I’m finding that the lists look kinda weird (maybe just because I’m not used to it). When I’ve asked people on message boards, I’ve mostly had responses from advertising people, and that’s really a very different way of handling
type.
So, the question is, do you always hang bullets in body text, even when there are multiple columns? If so, what is a good way to treat them? I currently have a 1p0 gutter between 2 columns, and I just set things up so bullets/numbers hang 5 points into that gutter. If there is any better practice or resources that I could find to help me improve my work, I’d appreciate the help.
Thanks for the great blog!
Thank you for the great question! Have at it in the comments.
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Posted by Giles, Wednesday, March 22, 2006, at 1:29 PM.
Posted to Book design | Type and typography
Comments:
Not a fan of hanging bullets; I usually indent the same amount as the paragraph indents, then space the text an equal amount past that (flush or justified left from there, not wrapped around the bullet). No indent for the first paragraph, space before first and after last bullet point. Sometimes I space the actual list, depending on the layout.
But then, I don’t do that many interiors with lists, and can set up so that my preferred type of design is possible — an admitted luxury.
Very surprising. All the advertising folks essentially gave me a big “duh, of course you ALWAYS hang the bullets.” I’m looking forward to hearing what others think.
oh, and I guess I’ve revealed my identity now (real and online). oh well.
I’m with Giles on this one. Indent the bullet to match the paragraph (usually 1 pica), indent the text an equal amount. (Anyone else still use picas?) On a narrow, two column layout, I’ll sometimes flush the bullets left with the text. But I never hang them out into the gutter, if that’s what you’re suggesting. Sometimes a half-line between bullet points looks nice.
The larger question, which really is for the clients, is whether lots of bullets really belong in books. Seems to me they’re a symptom of writers who are used to thinking in terms of Powerpoint presentations. Usually the stuff in bullets works just as well in a simple paragraph.
The masked man revealed…;)
Bringhurst insists on hanging them, but yes, I find it hard to actually read and discern each bullet. A nice em space or 1p space (yes, I love picas) works well. I usually align the indent to the para indent to keep things even.
I find that using either a smaller bullet or (gasp) a midpoint can reduce visual noise if there are tons of bullet points. I clearly avoid any dingbat font bullets, unless they are subtle. It should grab for that millisecond but not draw your eye back to it again and again.
That’s a good point, Ingrid — I usually reduce the size of the bullet, as well, and it’s always subtle. No dingbats!
Yes, “stock” bullets are way too thick, but I find midpoints too small. That is, assuming I’m thinking of the same thing. I normally call them in-line periods (that’s what Barry Moser called it when he taught me to use them).
Again, I’m really surprised by the results, but very intrigued. Do you all prefer indenting because it sets it off from the rest of the text, making it obvious that this is a separate, special element? The main problem I’ve had is that unless there is an extra line space before and after the list, it can too easily mash together with the body text when hanging the bullets.
I hope we get someone very much FOR hanging bullets to comment, so both sides can make their case.
Yes, spaces before and after are important to set it apart; I’ve always treated them as separate elements.
This is an extreme example, but, look at this.
I say “extreme” because the spaces here are larger than I usually prefer, but there’s a grid going — the text lines up with the dots, so there’s a full space before and after. (It’s also why the list itself isn’t spaced.)
I’d be curious to hear a hanging argument. Put Bringhurst on the desk to review, too.…